Curmudgeon Gamer
 Welcome to Curmudgeon Gamer Tuesday, February 09 2010 @ 08:52 AM CST  
RSS Feed
Sections
Home
Interviews
Atari
Sony
Sega
Microsoft
Nintendo
Classic
General Console
PC
Mac
Linux
Update
Handhelds
Commentary
Platform Shootout
Legal

User Functions
Username:

Password:


What's New
STORIES
No new stories

COMMENTS last 48 hrs
No new comments



Backward Compatibility for NextGen Consoles   
Wednesday, March 24 2004 @ 07:01 AM CST
Contributed by: jvm

CommentaryWith the next generation of consoles just on the horizon, the Microsoft and Sony and Nintendo fans have already begun speculating on the specifications for each new system. And while those kinds of discussions of millions of polygons can be interesting at some level, the true geek in me finds it more engaging to consider whether any of this coming generation of console hardware will have any backward compatibility with the current generation or even previous generations.

What are the potential benefits of backward compatibility? How has backward compatibility worked out in previous generations of console hardware? And, given these things, what could Microsoft and Sony and Nintendo be planning for their upcoming consoles?

Sony's Hardware Solution

Certainly, one of the reasons that I was plenty eager to stick with the PlayStation 2 over the GameCube and Xbox was that I could keep playing my two dozen PSOne games on the new system. In fact after having my PS2 for a few months the bottom seemed to fall out of the PSOne used game market, and I found my library of older games growing rapidly. Granted, they weren't all great games, but when the price is so low, I can lower my standards. (I do still regret buying Loaded, though. Take this as fair warning, and stay far, far away.) It is regrettable that I own two of the handful of PSOne games that don't work well on the PS2, but given how well all my other games work, given that the PS2 can modestly enhance the graphics of most PSOne games, and given how many PSOne save games I can store on a single PS2 memory card, I happily made the switch. Since the PlayStation 3 will feature backward compatibility with both the PS2 and the PSOne, it readily provides an upgrade path for me and tens of millions of other PlayStation owners.

The reason that the PS2 can play PSOne games, however, is that the input processor on the PS2 is the same as the main processor on the PSOne. This is apparently a bit of a technical fluke, and so it is unclear how Sony intends to achieve backward compatibility on the PS3. The reports of exactly what will go into the PS3 are still of in flux, but if Sony includes enough PS2 hardware in the PS3, then it is possible they will achieve the goal this time by a similar means. Regardless, if Sony makes full backward compatibility work then they will have the first console that will play three generations of video game software.

One interesting question is that of why Sony wishes to continue supporting the games on its older systems. If they derive an important revenue stream from this practice, it's not altogether obvious; many people don't know about the PSOne compatibility of the PS2 and it is probable that only a fraction of those who do know actually consider it an important feature. Further, one could argue that providing support for your older platform dilutes the sale of next generation games, since the older games will necessarily be available more cheaply even if they are less graphically appealing. The lesson of the Commodore 128 seems appropriate here: even after the new C128 was released, it was the Commodore 64 game market which continued to thrive, leading most C128 owners (like myself) to run their machines in C64 mode almost all the time. Since this only grew the market of people who could play C64 games, the market for C128-specific games was stillborn. This isn't going to happen to Sony, obviously, since they will be providing must-have software for their new platform, but it does point out how an older platform could erode sales for a newer one when backward compatibility is part of the equation.

Still, with backward compatibility on their side, Sony may be the only company who enters the next generation confident that early adopters will have a huge library of older games to choose from while they endure the slow months after a hardware launch.

Nintendo: The Great Recycler

In this sense, I think Sony has taken a page from Nintendo's GameBoy strategy: get the players into your system, and keep them there from one generation to the next by ensuring that older games work with newer systems. Every new GameBoy model has stood on the shoulders of its predecessors, sharing much of the same hardware, and tempting players like me to buy a GameBoy Advance even though we already own a previous incarnation. (I already own a GameBoy Color, and I don't plan on giving it up, primarily for sentimental reasons.) Additionally, my growing library of games includes newer GameBoy Advance games as well as a smattering of GameBoy Color and GameBoy games, all of which I hope to carry with me when Nintendo announces a true successor to the Advance system.

Interestingly, Nintendo has rarely used any form of backward compatibility in their console hardware. The Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) was not backward compatible with the giant library of Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) games already on the market. The Nintendo 64 (N64) was similarly not backward compatible, although a third party add-on provides a way to play NES and SNES games. As Nintendo's first optical disc-based system sold in North America, the GameCube was necessarily not able to play games from any of the previous cartridge-based systems. Unlike Sony, Nintendo has been willing to treat each new platform as a fresh start, relying on the previous generation only for the development of various franchises, like Mario and Pokémon. (It is perhaps a notable distinction that Sony's second console, the PS2, has not necessarily sold stongly because of their stable of franchises but rather on the strength of a newly revived franchise, namely Grand Theft Auto III and Grand Theft Auto: Vice City.)

Nintendo has started to realize the value of backward compatibility, I believe, but in a way that appears more lucrative than Sony's strategy. There are three aspects of Nintendo's current generation of hardware that exhibit this:

  • NES and SNES Ports: With games like The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, the Super Mario Bros. series, and Metroid: Zero Mission appearing on the GameBoy Advance with regularity, it appears that Nintendo realizes that many of their older, beloved games are ripe for reselling on their portable platform. Then there are the NES games that can be played via the e-Reader, a hardware dongle that reads games via swiped paper cards. The e-Reader approach makes money in two ways: first by selling the e-Reader hardware, and then by selling game cards themselves.
  • The GameBoy Player: This isn't backward compatibility, necessarily, but something I'd call cross-compatibility, and it also isn't the first time Nintendo has dabbled in this direction. With the GameBoy Player, the GameCube has access to the huge library of GameBoy, GameBoy Color, and GameBoy Advance games on the market, all playable on your larger, brighter TV screen. Again, they can make money through hardware sales for the Player itself, and then later on new games. Furthermore, it weds a buyer even more strongly to Nintendo's line of products. (As I said, this isn't the first time Nintendo has had such a product: the Super GameBoy for the SNES allowed you to play GameBoy games on your TV. In the sense that it had Super GameBoy enhanced games, and exclusive special versions like Space Invaders which were nearly arcade quality, it shared some characteristics of being its own platform, like the e-Reader.)
  • NES/SNES/N64 Emulators: With the release of The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, Nintendo included a Nintendo 64 emulator that plays Ocarina of Time, the Zelda game from the previous console generation. A later version includes emulations of the two Zelda games released for the NES as well as Ocarina and Majora's Mask for the N64. Metroid Prime also has an unlockable emulated version of Metroid for the NES. These bonus items are intended to move games and thereby strengthen the GameCube platform.
The recent remakes of popular games from the PSOne generation also deserves some mention, although they don't fit directly into the above categorization. Consider that Resident Evil, Resident Evil 2, Resident Evil 3: Nemesis, and Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes are all now available to GameCube players, and one sees just how much Nintendo plans to squeeze new revenue out of existing video games. Admittedly, Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid are much more extensive than straight ports, but certainly in the case of the second and third Resident Evil games it appears that Nintendo is content to have older games essentially recompiled for their current system.

The idea of the e-Reader is a neat trick, really. Think about it: Nintendo sells you hardware (GBA) on top of which you purchase yet another piece of hardware (e-Reader) just so you can buy games in all new format (cards). We've seen this kind of approach before but then it was Sega, not Nintendo, and they were trying to sell the SegaCD and the 32X on top of the Genesis. Those were both failures, for various reasons, and Sega lost some credibility over them. On the other hand, it appears that Nintendo knows how to take the idea, modify it, and make it work. They're the only ones making games for the e-Reader and they're not trying to build a new platform out of it, like Sega was trying to do. Rather, they're just efficiently making money using existing material from an older system.

Which is all to say, Nintendo has mostly responded to backward compatibility for its consoles in a unique way: software emulation and porting. I believe that one benefit that isn't apparent now is that with the tools they've built this generation they will be able to build emulators easily on their next generation of hardware and then resell the same software all over again in a new form. That is, they could port their current NES, SNES, and N64 emulators to the GameCube's successor and be ready to pack in their older Zelda games with a new Zelda game on the new platform. If they're lucky, they might even have a GameCube emulator to allow them to include Wind Waker as well. Certainly, Nintendo might have been slow to realize the value of backward compatibility, but they've ultimately created a way to add real value for their bottom line. Regardless, it does leave open the question of how Nintendo can induce its current customers to stay loyal when the GameCube's successor is launched. It seems unlikely, given their record, that Nintendo will offer a system that plays GameCube games out-of-the-box.

Microsoft the Unknown

Which brings me to the last player in this game: Microsoft. After a shaky start for the Xbox, they've stabilized into a respected second or third to Sony's dominating first. Going into the next generation, they've got a modestly strong base of Xbox owners, but they need to get those owners to upgrade while also bringing along some new customers at the same time. It is possible that backward compatibility with the Xbox in the next generation Microsoft console hardware would ease the transition for existing customers, while providing a strong library of older, budget-priced titles for new owners. However, what's currently believed about that future hardware may outright preclude any thought of backward compatibility with the original Xbox:

  • The new machine is said to be based on one or more IBM PowerPC G5 processors as opposed to the single Intel Celeron in the current machine. Certainly the little-endian/big-endian issues can be overcome, as Mac coders have been doing for years, and the processor(s) may be fast enough to achieve playable speeds, but there are so many things that can go wrong that one wonders if the effort is worth the reward. One could say this is a big reason that Microsoft bought VirtualPC from Connectix a while back, but I really doubt that's the case.
  • ATI is said to be providing the video hardware for the new machine, not NVIDIA who provided the hardware for the original Xbox. If there were any special features of NVIDIA hardware that were exploited by Xbox games, then those features may be either missing or accessed differently on ATI hardware. Consequently, any Xbox emulation would need to account for these differences at runtime.
  • Current reports suggest that local storage may be in the form of removable media, like flash memory cards, instead the current Xbox hard drive. An Xbox emulation would require that the new local storage format remain compatible with the old hard drive storage.
In all, it looks quite unlikely that Xbox owners will have an upgrade path that allows them to carry their Xbox games with them while shedding their older Xbox hardware. From a hardware perspective, there is very little legacy hardware moving to the next generation to ease the burden on an emulator. From a software perspective, it would appear to be a monumental task to get a fast, accurate emulator ready for the next system's launch. Instead, Microsoft will probably try to make their new console attractive to current Xbox users by launching it with sequels of the most popular Xbox games along with some impressive exclusive games; this has certainly been a well-used (and sometimes even successful) strategy in the video game business. Regardless, Microsoft will be very interesting to watch as they take their first stab at evolving from one generation of console to the next.



Backward Compatibility for NextGen Consoles | 14 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Backward Compatibility for NextGen Consoles
Authored by: zakk on Wednesday, March 24 2004 @ 01:16 AM CST
Clearly, Sega is exclusively in the business of porting/rehashing their old titles for new platforms, now if only they would release their Virtua Cop 1/2 PS2 compilation in the US....
GBA Multigenerational
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 24 2004 @ 01:45 AM CST
The GBA is also a multigenerational system. The newly released (Japan) famicom adapter, and backward compatibilty with the older Gameboy and Gameboy Color Games allow it to play 3 generations of games.

This also means that if you shell out enough cash, you can play old Famicom Games on the Gamecube through the GBA adapter and the Famicom Adapter.

So I guess the article is correct that the playstation will support three generations of systems natively in the future, but Nintendo has them beaten now.
GBA Multigenerational
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 24 2004 @ 09:10 AM CST
nintendo didnt release the famicom adapter, so it doesnt count

otherwise n64 would be the first with the device mentioned in the article, or dreamcast since it has emulators for everything
GBA Multigenerational
Authored by: ruffin on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 08:24 AM CST
"Which is all to say, Nintendo has mostly responded to backward compatibility for its consoles in a unique way: software emulation and porting."

One bit that Matt left out (thankfully -- I feel every author would be calling Lebowski "El Duderino" around here) is that Pokemon Stadium had a hardware add-on to allow you to play Pokemon [Blue|Red|Yellow] on your N64, and happily in x2 & x3 speed, depending on your accomplishments in the Stadium. (Let's not ask why I know, okay?)

This is another instance of Nintendo via emulation (I have to assume), and does make me wonder why no GB player ever appeared on the N64 from Nintendo (a 3rd party player did appear). Though I suppose they likely cut so many corners that all the hardware was doing was reading off save games, they did, by defn, have a GB emu at least well started on the N64.

What's the relation to the thread? Well, I suppose you need three levels of console before you can call the N64 multigenerational, but there's at least a touch of sidewise compatibility.

The point about the Dreamcast being the mother of all backwards compat if you include 3rd party tools is a point very well taken.
Backward Compatibility for NextGen Consoles
Authored by: PainKilleR on Wednesday, March 24 2004 @ 06:26 AM CST
It is regrettable that I own two of the handful of PSOne games that don't work well on the PS2, but given how well all my other games work, given that the PS2 can modestly enhance the graphics of most PSOne games, and given how many PSOne save games I can store on a single PS2 memory card, I happily made the switch.

I too happen to have at least 1 game on that list of incompatible games (and I actually hadn't noticed given that I haven't played that game since getting rid of my PS1, but since it's on Sony's list, I may have to get a PSOne, because I had planned on picking the game back up). One thing I'm wondering, though, is how you managed to get PS1 games to work with PS2 memory cards, as I've never seen this done and had to specifically buy PS1 cards for my games.

Since the PlayStation 3 will feature backward compatibility with both the PS2 and the PSOne, it readily provides an upgrade path for me and tens of millions of other PlayStation owners.

So far, there have been no announcements that the PS3 will be compatible with PS1 games. I really hope that it is, but it's been noticably absent (though they mention PS2 games).

The reason that the PS2 can play PSOne games, however, is that the input processor on the PS2 is the same as the main processor on the PSOne. This is apparently a bit of a technical fluke, and so it is unclear how Sony intends to achieve backward compatibility on the PS3.

The processor was specifically designed by another company to combine most of the capabilities of a PS1 into one chip, so it's not really much of a fluke (though it was, perhaps, a fluke for Sony, since Sony didn't design the chip). Sony's managed to get the main processors down to a single chip in the PS2, with the I/O and sound being seperate chips. It's widely believed (but not announced), that they'll use a similar method as the PS2, perhaps with some logic to switch between the PS2 chip and the PS3 system based on which disc is inserted. If they keep the same I/O chip, PS1 compatability should be easy enough, which is why I don't understand the lack of announcements regarding PS1 compatability.

The reports of exactly what will go into the PS3 are still of in flux, but if Sony includes enough PS2 hardware in the PS3, then it is possible they will achieve the goal this time by a similar means.

The hardest part really seems to be determining the path through the system to get to the PS3. Additionally, how much space they have inside the box would be determined primarily by what the PS3 circuits actually look like, and the size of it's chips, so we can't really say yet whether the work done on reducing the size of the PS2 will really help here.
Backward Compatibility for NextGen Consoles
Authored by: jvm on Wednesday, March 24 2004 @ 11:26 AM CST
One thing I'm wondering, though, is how you managed to get PS1 games to work with PS2 memory cards, as I've never seen this done and had to specifically buy PS1 cards for my games.
I don't use the cards with PS1 games. I store PS1 saves on PS2 cards, then transfer them to a PS1 card when I need to use them.
Backward Compatibility for NextGen Consoles
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 24 2004 @ 11:55 AM CST
"One thing I'm wondering, though, is how you managed to get PS1 games to work with PS2 memory cards, as I've never seen this done and had to specifically buy PS1 cards for my games."

You do need a PS1 memory card for the games but through the PS2 Browser, you can copy the saves from the PS1 card to the PS2 card, and start off with a blank PS1 card, and swap saves back/forth as needed.

~TrickFred
Backward Compatibility for NextGen Consoles
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, March 24 2004 @ 04:18 PM CST
Backwards Compatibility gave the PS2 a little boost in the beginning, since there was a solid PS1 library, and the PS2 launch titles were hit-and-miss. As time went on, backwards compatibility became less of a selling point for the average PS2 owner (as expected). If Sony is expecting a poor (or just small) set of launch titles for the PS3 (which would be understandable, given that the PS3 looks to be just as hard as, if not harder, to develop for than the PS2), then they'd be wise to have PS2 backwards compatibility.

For the X-Box2, backwards compatibility matters less, as the XBox1 library is relatively small (well, 'must-have' titles at least), plus MS is working hard to ensure that there will be a good number of launch titles for XBox2.
Backward Compatibility for NextGen Consoles
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 09:40 AM CST
man I loved that thing you could stick in your genesis that let you play master system games. What the hell was it called again? Either way it looked like a toilet.
Backward Compatibility for NextGen Consoles
Authored by: jvm on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 09:58 AM CST
That was the Power Base Convertor. You should ask Ruffin about what happened to his PBC. ;^)

However, I'd say that a JagCD looked more like a toilet than a PBC. But that's just me.
Backward Compatibility for NextGen Consoles
Authored by: ruffin on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 01:41 PM CST
Of course the original iBook was named the clamshell or "toilet seat" laptop. If you had Tiny E's iBook atop a JagCD...

(We don't talk about the PBC any more around here, btw)
Backward Compatibility for NextGen Consoles
Authored by: akawaka on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 12:25 PM CST
Hardware level backwards compatibility can only cause problems in the long
run. Each new generation of a console runs the risk of being constrained by
the design mistakes of its predecessor. The PS2 GS processor has several
strange design characteristics that can only be attributed to its compatibility
with the PS1 GS. How will PS3 hardware be hindered by its compatibility with
the complex PS2 hardware?

The consumer also has to pay a price. I never play GameBoy games on my
GBASP, but I still have to pay the price for the unused Z80-varient processor
in there. Not just dollars, maybe the SP could have been smaller aswell as
cheaper without this additional hardware.

I can't see how Microsoft will maintain compatibility either. Hardware level
compatibility just doesn't make sense since the cost of a x86 processor is
prohibitive and a *single* G5 processor isn't powerful enough to
emulate the Xbox's celeron processor. I say a single G5 because I can't see
how it would be possible to distribute emulalation of a x86 core across
several CPUs.

---
Martin - http://akawaka.csn.ul.ie
Backward Compatibility for NextGen Consoles
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 25 2004 @ 09:12 PM CST
Were the Atari 2600/5200/7800 series all backwards compatible, or was that one of the faults of the 7800? Of course, there is also the weird case of the NeoGeo MVS/AES, which itself was active through something like four hardware generations, and outlasted even SNK's own attempt at a "next gen" system.

Also, Nintendo hasn't used a SNES emulator on the Gamecube, just NES and N64. And the N64 emulation is only partial. It mainly supports simpler games, and particularly games coded in Nintendo's style. And even then, it has some sound issues with Majora's Mask.

As for backwards compatibility, it is a problem in the long run. Look at PCs and Windows for two examples. Some of the later Windows instability was from trying to support software made for earlier versions, as far back as DOS. Even bugs and glitches of prior versions may need to be supported if enough software expected them or used/abused them.

With hardware, you have to support outdated chips and such, or you risk breaking some games if you try to redesign said old systems to a more useful chip. Simply emulating older systems has similar problems. (Look at PS2 memory card support and PS2 multitap "compatibility" for areas where Sony chose to break compatibility. Though the memory card thing was a rip, as they should have been able to emulate PS1 save support onto PS2 cards without compromising PS2 card abilities or breaking PS1 games.)

Of course, if backwards compatibility becomes expected, it could be as dangerous to remove the feature... Look at the damage Motorola did to their PC chip market when they redesigned while Intel continued to stay the course with increasingly convoluted backwards-compatible chips.
Backward Compatibility for NextGen Consoles
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, April 09 2004 @ 03:47 PM CDT
I have quite a bit of money invested in the XBOX both in games and add on devices. If the next gen of XBOX does not support my games I will continue with my old console with a PS3 by it's side to run all the new games I purchase.
What's Related
  • Loaded
  • handful of PSOne games
  • a third party add-on
  • Metroid: Zero Mission
  • GameBoy Player
  • Space Invaders
  • The Legend of Zelda: Th...
  • Metroid Prime
  • Resident Evil

  • Story Options
  • Mail Story to a Friend
  • Printable Story Format


  • Created this page in 0.13 seconds


     Copyright © 2010 Curmudgeon Gamer
     All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners.

    Powered By